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	<title>Comments on: Surveys of Church Non-Attendance</title>
	<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/</link>
	<description>spirituality in the workplace</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2526</link>
		<author>Terri</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2526</guid>
		<description>I did not go to church between the ages of 22-28. (I did go during college--catholic, but very liberal campus ministry program with on-campus services...and they were at 9 PM on sunday nights) The reason I didn't go after college though was 
1-- I didn't know what religion I was. Definitely not Catholic as it was practiced in most churches. (the church I grew up in was ex-communicated Catholic) Hadn't heard of the UU's yet...I did try out a couple churches here and there but I didn't want to spend my sunday  mornings church-shopping.  I knew I was looking for a unique product--and if it didn't make the news, it probably didn't exist.  The church I wanted had to offer 1) radical social justice 2) spiritually rich experience 3) a sense of belonging

My first experience with UUism offered me number 2-- and once the new ministers got situated--number 1.  I found number 3 through small groups-- not Sunday worship. 

Now my new UU church (when I moved) offers me only number 3--so I found myself on Friday in spiritual direction, and today at a UCC service on a street corner with homeless people....I am lessening my attendance at Sunday worship in my UU church  because there is no real spiritual leader who challenges and moves me there. And because I am looking for the really uncommon religious experience.       

(Oh, and the other reason I didn't go to my UU service this morning is because my husband's job (he had a real estate appointment) and we share a car... the UCC service was in the afternoon.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not go to church between the ages of 22-28. (I did go during college&#8211;catholic, but very liberal campus ministry program with on-campus services&#8230;and they were at 9 PM on sunday nights) The reason I didn&#8217;t go after college though was<br />
1&#8211; I didn&#8217;t know what religion I was. Definitely not Catholic as it was practiced in most churches. (the church I grew up in was ex-communicated Catholic) Hadn&#8217;t heard of the UU&#8217;s yet&#8230;I did try out a couple churches here and there but I didn&#8217;t want to spend my sunday  mornings church-shopping.  I knew I was looking for a unique product&#8211;and if it didn&#8217;t make the news, it probably didn&#8217;t exist.  The church I wanted had to offer 1) radical social justice 2) spiritually rich experience 3) a sense of belonging</p>
<p>My first experience with UUism offered me number 2&#8211; and once the new ministers got situated&#8211;number 1.  I found number 3 through small groups&#8211; not Sunday worship. </p>
<p>Now my new UU church (when I moved) offers me only number 3&#8211;so I found myself on Friday in spiritual direction, and today at a UCC service on a street corner with homeless people&#8230;.I am lessening my attendance at Sunday worship in my UU church  because there is no real spiritual leader who challenges and moves me there. And because I am looking for the really uncommon religious experience.       </p>
<p>(Oh, and the other reason I didn&#8217;t go to my UU service this morning is because my husband&#8217;s job (he had a real estate appointment) and we share a car&#8230; the UCC service was in the afternoon.)</p>
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		<title>By: ghstgirlhubby</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2524</link>
		<author>ghstgirlhubby</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2524</guid>
		<description>I quit attending church after 10th grade...well, I guess technically after 11th grade (spent a year at a boarding school where quaker meeting was required twice a week). 

My reason for leaving--the hypocricy of the organization of church...basically, the school I attended for 8-10 grade was episcopalian. The Bishop closed down the school because the original charter gave the property to the church if the school lost money...the Bishop claimed the school lost money and shut it down (the town, some student parents, the community, and others have been in court for the last 10+ years now). So, I was basically gave up on the organization of church, as it is run by people, and people are going to make mistakes (whether intentional or not). 

At the same time I was attending confirmatin class, until the Minister asked me to stop. Apparently, you are not supposed to ask questions about faith, God, or the Bible in confirmation class (at a congregational church)...you are supposed to accept whatever the minister says as truth. So, church and I did not get along. 

I studied many religions and have come to terms with my lack of church or religious studying. Overall (I realize there are exceptions), I find churches closed minded and authoratative, rather than nourishing and helpful. I realize this is not the congregations or the people who worships doing...it is just the nature of large organizations, in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I quit attending church after 10th grade&#8230;well, I guess technically after 11th grade (spent a year at a boarding school where quaker meeting was required twice a week). </p>
<p>My reason for leaving&#8211;the hypocricy of the organization of church&#8230;basically, the school I attended for 8-10 grade was episcopalian. The Bishop closed down the school because the original charter gave the property to the church if the school lost money&#8230;the Bishop claimed the school lost money and shut it down (the town, some student parents, the community, and others have been in court for the last 10+ years now). So, I was basically gave up on the organization of church, as it is run by people, and people are going to make mistakes (whether intentional or not). </p>
<p>At the same time I was attending confirmatin class, until the Minister asked me to stop. Apparently, you are not supposed to ask questions about faith, God, or the Bible in confirmation class (at a congregational church)&#8230;you are supposed to accept whatever the minister says as truth. So, church and I did not get along. </p>
<p>I studied many religions and have come to terms with my lack of church or religious studying. Overall (I realize there are exceptions), I find churches closed minded and authoratative, rather than nourishing and helpful. I realize this is not the congregations or the people who worships doing&#8230;it is just the nature of large organizations, in general.</p>
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		<title>By: GhostGirl</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2515</link>
		<author>GhostGirl</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 02:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2515</guid>
		<description>In answer to your question, it was mostly the spiritual crisis I have described before on this blog. Which was really started from the horrible political shenanigans in our church--for example, the principal of our church-run school was fired for embezzling. She sued for breach of contract. She sued all of the board of trustees individually as well as the church. My dad was one of them. Her lawyers threatened to drag me into court (I was eight at the time) to testify that my dad molested me, based on the fact that he had some issues of Playboy lying around the house that my friend had once seen. 

It was this kind of piled up, unmitigated bullshit that made me not want to be involved in any sort of organized religion. It wasn't fullfilling. I evolved my own beliefs, found my support and community elsewhere. After I got to college, I made my manager schedule me for Sundays and that was that.

File that under hypcrisy. :-)

I also tend to prefer unprogrammed worship. The preachers that I respect aren't in the church performing liturgies, they are out on the street showing an example and helping others. I think too often churches focus on what's going on inside the sanctuary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In answer to your question, it was mostly the spiritual crisis I have described before on this blog. Which was really started from the horrible political shenanigans in our church&#8211;for example, the principal of our church-run school was fired for embezzling. She sued for breach of contract. She sued all of the board of trustees individually as well as the church. My dad was one of them. Her lawyers threatened to drag me into court (I was eight at the time) to testify that my dad molested me, based on the fact that he had some issues of Playboy lying around the house that my friend had once seen. </p>
<p>It was this kind of piled up, unmitigated bullshit that made me not want to be involved in any sort of organized religion. It wasn&#8217;t fullfilling. I evolved my own beliefs, found my support and community elsewhere. After I got to college, I made my manager schedule me for Sundays and that was that.</p>
<p>File that under hypcrisy. <img src='http://survivingtheworkday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I also tend to prefer unprogrammed worship. The preachers that I respect aren&#8217;t in the church performing liturgies, they are out on the street showing an example and helping others. I think too often churches focus on what&#8217;s going on inside the sanctuary.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Theologian</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2514</link>
		<author>Ms. Theologian</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2514</guid>
		<description>See, I think your reasons, like GhostGirl's totally fit into the second survey's "life changes" category. As do mine I think.

Your list makes me think I might be compelled to church by dynamite preaching. I'm certainly not a dynamite preacher, but after hearing some dynamite preachers, it does make you aware of less challenging messages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I think your reasons, like GhostGirl&#8217;s totally fit into the second survey&#8217;s &#8220;life changes&#8221; category. As do mine I think.</p>
<p>Your list makes me think I might be compelled to church by dynamite preaching. I&#8217;m certainly not a dynamite preacher, but after hearing some dynamite preachers, it does make you aware of less challenging messages.</p>
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		<title>By: h sofia</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2513</link>
		<author>h sofia</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2513</guid>
		<description>I don't go to church on Sundays much these days - when I first became UU, I went 3-4 weekends a month. There are so many reasons why ... Gosh. It's hard to list one. And no one reason alone would suffice to make me reluctant to come; it's cumulative ...

Randomly, I'll list a few: 
-there was a long stretch of sermons that didn't do much for me
-I always feel obligated to be extroverted at Coffee Hour when I'm there; and I'm not always in the mood for that
-information overload; so many sign up sheets after church, and so much pull to sign up for this or that - I have enough on my plate
-as a young adult, I want to greet other young adults and talk to them; but truth be told, I'm not actively looking for new friends, so I feel a little fake talking to new people I know I'm not really going to get to know as individuals
-it's a 50 minute drive there and back
-sometimes I stay up really late on Sat nights
-don't feel much spirituality during church services
-sermons aren't very challenging
-no space to be alone or have quiet during church service; the busyness doesn't connote spirituality for me, but social activity, which I have plenty of
-nothing very deep happens on sunday mornings
-it doesn't feel like it matters whether I'm there or not; I know everyone will be fine without me

I would like to get better about a spiritual practice. I think after seven years (oh no, the 7 year itch!) I've actually gotten kind of bored with church service, and find it to be predictable. Part of me thinks it's time to give it a fresh chance, as we have a new social justice minister who is awesome and gives sermons now. I started attending church at a time when my social life was almost non existent. Now, my life feels full enough, and I'm trying to fulfill my current obligations, not adopt new ones. Church was very successful in filling up my social calendar. Whether I go to Sunday morning services or not, I'm still having to make my own spiritual practice; going to church on Sundays doesn't feel like a spiritual practice anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t go to church on Sundays much these days - when I first became UU, I went 3-4 weekends a month. There are so many reasons why &#8230; Gosh. It&#8217;s hard to list one. And no one reason alone would suffice to make me reluctant to come; it&#8217;s cumulative &#8230;</p>
<p>Randomly, I&#8217;ll list a few:<br />
-there was a long stretch of sermons that didn&#8217;t do much for me<br />
-I always feel obligated to be extroverted at Coffee Hour when I&#8217;m there; and I&#8217;m not always in the mood for that<br />
-information overload; so many sign up sheets after church, and so much pull to sign up for this or that - I have enough on my plate<br />
-as a young adult, I want to greet other young adults and talk to them; but truth be told, I&#8217;m not actively looking for new friends, so I feel a little fake talking to new people I know I&#8217;m not really going to get to know as individuals<br />
-it&#8217;s a 50 minute drive there and back<br />
-sometimes I stay up really late on Sat nights<br />
-don&#8217;t feel much spirituality during church services<br />
-sermons aren&#8217;t very challenging<br />
-no space to be alone or have quiet during church service; the busyness doesn&#8217;t connote spirituality for me, but social activity, which I have plenty of<br />
-nothing very deep happens on sunday mornings<br />
-it doesn&#8217;t feel like it matters whether I&#8217;m there or not; I know everyone will be fine without me</p>
<p>I would like to get better about a spiritual practice. I think after seven years (oh no, the 7 year itch!) I&#8217;ve actually gotten kind of bored with church service, and find it to be predictable. Part of me thinks it&#8217;s time to give it a fresh chance, as we have a new social justice minister who is awesome and gives sermons now. I started attending church at a time when my social life was almost non existent. Now, my life feels full enough, and I&#8217;m trying to fulfill my current obligations, not adopt new ones. Church was very successful in filling up my social calendar. Whether I go to Sunday morning services or not, I&#8217;m still having to make my own spiritual practice; going to church on Sundays doesn&#8217;t feel like a spiritual practice anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Theologian</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2512</link>
		<author>Ms. Theologian</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2512</guid>
		<description>I've definitely seen those reasons around. I'm trying how to figure out how the reasons for not going to church relate to the reasons for going to church. For example, the reasons relating to hypocrisy of the community seem to fall under #1. If you've found church folks hypocritical, then you'll probably not find it an authentic community in some way.

For those people who now are plugged into church in non-Sunday ways, I wonder if they had to attend Sundays first and then made some sort of determination that they were not Sunday church people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve definitely seen those reasons around. I&#8217;m trying how to figure out how the reasons for not going to church relate to the reasons for going to church. For example, the reasons relating to hypocrisy of the community seem to fall under #1. If you&#8217;ve found church folks hypocritical, then you&#8217;ll probably not find it an authentic community in some way.</p>
<p>For those people who now are plugged into church in non-Sunday ways, I wonder if they had to attend Sundays first and then made some sort of determination that they were not Sunday church people.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2511</link>
		<author>Jim</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2511</guid>
		<description>The reasons people go to church (paraphrased from research I've read elsewhere):

1. To build and experience authentic community
2. To make a difference (for the better) in the world
3. To experience transformative spirituality (in whatever way one defines such experience)

In the LifeWay survey responses regarding what would motivate people to return to church, nearly every one of them was related to one of these three things.

I think it's pretty clear that people need to feel connected or "plugged in" in some meaningful way to stay involved in any organization or institution.  So it's up to the organization and its members/participants to work together to determine how to build and maintain this sense of connection (and it will be different for each individual).

It's interesting to me that so much emphasis is placed on Sunday morning services as I know a number of people in my church who rarely show up on Sunday mornings (maybe 2 or 3 times a year) but who organize weekly meditation groups, study groups, outdoor romps, etc.  These particular people are actually more "plugged in" to the church than a lot of folks who attend Sunday services nearly every week but don't do much else.

For the vast majority of people in churches, however, I believe that the Sunday morning worship experience really can be important and helps foster some of the smaller groups (maybe even including some fuddy-duddy folk dancing groups:)) that keep people feeling connected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reasons people go to church (paraphrased from research I&#8217;ve read elsewhere):</p>
<p>1. To build and experience authentic community<br />
2. To make a difference (for the better) in the world<br />
3. To experience transformative spirituality (in whatever way one defines such experience)</p>
<p>In the LifeWay survey responses regarding what would motivate people to return to church, nearly every one of them was related to one of these three things.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s pretty clear that people need to feel connected or &#8220;plugged in&#8221; in some meaningful way to stay involved in any organization or institution.  So it&#8217;s up to the organization and its members/participants to work together to determine how to build and maintain this sense of connection (and it will be different for each individual).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to me that so much emphasis is placed on Sunday morning services as I know a number of people in my church who rarely show up on Sunday mornings (maybe 2 or 3 times a year) but who organize weekly meditation groups, study groups, outdoor romps, etc.  These particular people are actually more &#8220;plugged in&#8221; to the church than a lot of folks who attend Sunday services nearly every week but don&#8217;t do much else.</p>
<p>For the vast majority of people in churches, however, I believe that the Sunday morning worship experience really can be important and helps foster some of the smaller groups (maybe even including some fuddy-duddy folk dancing groups:)) that keep people feeling connected.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Theologian</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2510</link>
		<author>Ms. Theologian</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2510</guid>
		<description>So which of &lt;a href="http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/files/lwcF_PP-Formerly_Churched_Presentation.ppt.ppt#452,8,Of all reasons for no longer attending church regularly, changes in life situation represents the top general category" rel="nofollow"&gt;these reasons&lt;/a&gt; fits your description of not attending? I mean, if you had to choose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So which of <a href="http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/files/lwcF_PP-Formerly_Churched_Presentation.ppt.ppt#452,8,Of all reasons for no longer attending church regularly, changes in life situation represents the top general category" rel="nofollow">these reasons</a> fits your description of not attending? I mean, if you had to choose.</p>
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		<title>By: GhostGirl</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2508</link>
		<author>GhostGirl</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2508</guid>
		<description>Damned dirty hippies! :-)

RE: Church &#038; need. When I stopped going to church, my Dad protested that I "needed the community" and "support," little realizing that I felt I got those needs fulfilled through my friends and the community at work. I felt like I had people to call on if I needed help. I am pretty sure that a lot of college students feel the same way (I stopped attending church in college.)

I also felt like it was a waste of more than I was willing to allot to church--2 hour service (our church service was LONG) then an hour for socializing (my dad was a deacon, we always stayed a really long time.) Then I was trapped into going to lunch with my parents. By the time I got home it was 3pm. For a college student, that was a big commitment. Granted, I probably had a more extreme experience than most.

I think college also tends to stretch the horizons a bit. In high school, you're really not taught to think for yourself. In college, that is more emphasized. You start thinking outside your usual paradigm and suddenly, you realize that you don't have to go to church just because you did growing up.

Also, hangovers. :-)

Why do I not go now? Well, I'm used to not going. I connect to a higher power on my own. I don't feel the need for any additional support. 

Will I go in the future? Probably not. Not even with kids.  I expect to teach them various scriptures. And we know enough people of various religions that I will be able to send them to services to see what they like and don't like. But I will generally be raising little heathens who will probably become Catholic priests or something, just to piss mommy off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damned dirty hippies! <img src='http://survivingtheworkday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>RE: Church &#038; need. When I stopped going to church, my Dad protested that I &#8220;needed the community&#8221; and &#8220;support,&#8221; little realizing that I felt I got those needs fulfilled through my friends and the community at work. I felt like I had people to call on if I needed help. I am pretty sure that a lot of college students feel the same way (I stopped attending church in college.)</p>
<p>I also felt like it was a waste of more than I was willing to allot to church&#8211;2 hour service (our church service was LONG) then an hour for socializing (my dad was a deacon, we always stayed a really long time.) Then I was trapped into going to lunch with my parents. By the time I got home it was 3pm. For a college student, that was a big commitment. Granted, I probably had a more extreme experience than most.</p>
<p>I think college also tends to stretch the horizons a bit. In high school, you&#8217;re really not taught to think for yourself. In college, that is more emphasized. You start thinking outside your usual paradigm and suddenly, you realize that you don&#8217;t have to go to church just because you did growing up.</p>
<p>Also, hangovers. <img src='http://survivingtheworkday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Why do I not go now? Well, I&#8217;m used to not going. I connect to a higher power on my own. I don&#8217;t feel the need for any additional support. </p>
<p>Will I go in the future? Probably not. Not even with kids.  I expect to teach them various scriptures. And we know enough people of various religions that I will be able to send them to services to see what they like and don&#8217;t like. But I will generally be raising little heathens who will probably become Catholic priests or something, just to piss mommy off.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Theologian</title>
		<link>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2507</link>
		<author>Ms. Theologian</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://survivingtheworkday.com/2008/03/29/surveys-of-non-attendance/#comment-2507</guid>
		<description>And work, don't forget work, church competes with work for many many people on Sunday morning. And work pays bills.

Interestingly, the research (the second study) I'm pretty sure is with conservative Christians who end up giving the same reasons for non-attendance as what I would guess UU's would give. 

If I had to guess based on my own church going, I would say that people go to church to be part of a religious community and to deepen their religious or spiritual experience (or that of their kids). Probably other reasons too. But when those needs are met elsewhere (or those needs are subsumed to other needs, such as the need to work), church ends up feeling less needed. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And work, don&#8217;t forget work, church competes with work for many many people on Sunday morning. And work pays bills.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the research (the second study) I&#8217;m pretty sure is with conservative Christians who end up giving the same reasons for non-attendance as what I would guess UU&#8217;s would give. </p>
<p>If I had to guess based on my own church going, I would say that people go to church to be part of a religious community and to deepen their religious or spiritual experience (or that of their kids). Probably other reasons too. But when those needs are met elsewhere (or those needs are subsumed to other needs, such as the need to work), church ends up feeling less needed. What do you think?</p>
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