16th Mar 2008
Church Not Going: Questions and Comments
I’ve been reading the large number of comments that have been appearing on my church-related posts, but haven’t responded individually. I hope that’s something we can live with as I appreciate the comments but don’t seem to have the time or energy to respond comment by comment. It’s me, not you. :)
However, there are some really thought-provoking comments on the Why I Don’t Go to Church Post, some of which I’m going to call out here.
Kel, after a lifetime of work in church and church organizations, including being a pastor’s kid, says,
“Yeah sure, church might be a good place to serve people, but after many years of it, you wonder when it’s your turn to be served . . . but because you don’t have kids that never happens.”
That is exactly how I feel. And I think that attending seminary, working in a church, and training to be a minister sort of made this feeling worse. It seems a bit harder for me to be a congregant again and I have to curb the urge to jump at every leadership opportunity. There is a place of balance between service to others and others providing some service to you.
Chuck asks,
“If your church had a series of social events in connection with other UU churches in the region that was geared not toward just families, but had families in mind would you go? I’m thinking of annual jamboree’s or the like where you could meet other UU singles to just hang with.”
Your question is a good one as I think there is always room for UUs to connect across communities. However, for me, I’m not interested in social events as church functions. I have enough social stuff going on.
Jim says,
“Why pick on folk dancing? Did you have a traumatic folk dance experience as a child? Were you frightened by a freilekh? Did a square dance make you squeamish? I’ve attended several UU churches and have not yet been to one that hosts folk dances, but, if one of them did, I hope I wouldn’t hold it against them.
I can relate to the “what’s in it for me?” stuff, but it also frustrates and disappoints me. Being a part of any community requires a certain amount of inconvenience and discomfort, right?”
I mostly mentioned folk dancing because it started with an “f” and so did “family game night” and I like alliteration (as do you!). The UU church I grew up in had folk dancing, and it was very popular. My parents went as did all their UU friends. My point, which apparently was obscured by alliteration and my sense of humor, is that these don’t represent programming that will draw me in as a 35-year-old child-free adult.
Since writing the original post, I’ve scoured roughly 50 UU church calendars looking for programming and have come up with the UU bible study, meditation, and prayer groups, but I actually think specific programs that interest me are beside the point. I had four reasons for not going to church anymore and my own disinterest in current programming was only one of them.
Marmota asks the next logical question,
“Whose responsibility is it to make your local UU congregation fulfill you?”
I feel like the discussion shifted at some point from my reasons for not going to church (any church, mind you, not just the closest UU one) to trying to label programs that will bring me in or fulfill me. I may have caused that shift by mentioning folk dancing and disinterest, and for that I apologize. What I was trying to do in my original post is describe why I ended up in the 76% of Unitarian Universalists who affiliate as such and don’t attend church. And for the record, I’ve also written about when UU church and UU groups worked well for me and I was of service to them here and here and here.
In response to your specific query, I suppose it’s my own responsibility to make my UU church fulfill me, and I admire how you were able to do that in your own church. However, after say 10 years of leadership positions (formal and informal) in UU churches plus attending seminary, all of which was mainly about serving others to build a better church, I’ve decided that I don’t want to attend only in order to serve. I’ve done that.
Terri left a related comment on Lessons from a local church,
“When I moved away from Rochester, and talked about how disappointed I was in the available UU options, and how my solution was to become a leader and “give, give, give”, I remember a UU minister saying to me– “Yes, but you need to be fed too.”
That’s a good point. I think I’d need to be fed too as part of the service-served balance. But here’s the rub for me. I’m already fed. It’s just not at church. It’s at a half dozen other places, including my own home. And that’s okay, but it’s also why I don’t go to church at this time.
I’m not asking churches to change to accomodate me; I’m simply explaining why I no longer go.
You know, I wonder if we can ever accept the idea that it’s just not necessary for everyone to go to church. Churches try to figure out how to get *everyone* in the door, and non church goers try to figure out what it would take to get them coming back every week. Is that realistic? Especially for such an individualist religion as ours?
I definitely don’t think it’s realistic without the threat of hell and damnation.
But I do think Unitarian Universalism can gently shift beyond the congregation is everything attitude that we get with congregationalism (and is necessary to an extent) to looking at different ways of providing ministry (Thursday p.m. services, Sunday sundowns, house/home church). I think that the Sunday a.m. service in liberal congregations competes with so many other activities that without the threat of eternal damnation, I fear the day/time thing may be part of the cause of numbers of unchurched and affiliated but non-attending folks.
By the way, that church you linked to had a LOT going on.
But on some level you really seem to want to go to church. Or maybe it’s just that you WANT to want to go to church. Anyway, it makes it tempting for those of us who are church-goers to come up with reasons and/or ways for you to attend and be involved in church.
And frankly the Sunday morning timing issue seems to me to be mostly a cop-out as there are lots of folks who somehow manage to attend both a UU church service AND the Church of the Yuppie Farmers Market each week.
Well, that’s interesting, but it’s hard to argue if you seem to know more about what I want than I do. I could call any of the reasons cop-outs because, of course, people manage to overcome them when they want to go to church. I’ve gone to Sunday church for 20 years, so it was certainly markedly absent, but I’m not aware of wanting to go to church any more. I do hope to be understood as an affiliated non-attending church UU though. That seemed to be my purpose.
Well I’m still trying to figure out why any atheist in their right mind would want to go to “church” on Sunday, let alone preside over a “Unitarian Church” as its minister. . .
So why do UU’s only have church on Sunday mornings? Growing up Catholic, we had church on Saturday evenings too…and my church had a Thursday night Mass, and daily masses too. I rarely went to church on Sunday because my dad played baseball then. (and my dad was one of the most religious people i’ve ever known…) I know UU services are different than Catholic masses (thank god:) At least we don’t make people conform their theologies– only their schedules!
I can certainly understand the impulse to want to design programming that would make you want to come back. Though I wouldn’t phrase things the way Jim did, I did also see an “I would go to church, if only…” undercurrent to the post that did suggest you missed it and would come back if only you were being fed and served there. If I put it there myself, my apologies.
At the very least, congregations need members to stay alive, and “I’d rather go to the farmers market because church doesn’t give me what I need” is a very distressing thought to those of us who are getting what we need from church and very much want our churches to continue to exist!
I have no idea what to do with the point about families in that my observation is that both families with small kids and single people feel constantly slighted and that the other gets all the attention and the programming. (Ever met a parent who thought RE got enough of the church budget? Me neither.) I can understand how this could literally be the case in some small churches if one group dominated. But my church has RE classes and events for every concievable age bracket and everybody still feels this way. (Again, except for me, because I’m too busy with YRUU to do the stuff offered for adults anyway…)
It’s probably easier to feel that church is serving you when you don’t have a theology degree. I doubt there’s anything I’ve learned from my minister that you don’t already know. My guess is that a lot of the adult RE offered anywhere would only be reminding you of things you know rather than giving you a really new experience.
Also, my minister said a few kind words to me when my grandmother died a few years ago, but the bulk of the expressions of concern came from people I’d met through serving other people. Those expressions were sustaining to me in my time of grief. Service does happen sometimes when people know you well and find out you need it. It sucks to have to reach out, though.
YMMV, and you really don’t have to come back to church if you don’t want to. Really.
CC
Terri, I think there are alternative service times at some UU churches, but, yes, not like Catholic options.
Just so you know, CC, I had to look up YMMV.
I guess part of what you and Jim may be sensing is my attempt to reconceptualize what a church that appeals to (and feeds) me would look with (alternative service times, practical sermons, a wide range of ages, backgrounds, and programs, maybe lay-led). It’s hard to imagine that because I haven’t seen a UU version, but I’d certainly be curious enough to check it out. Whether I felt “fed” remains to be seen.
But I honestly think the Sunday service time is far more significant than just a farmer’s market issue. I think that it’s a h-u-g-e issue toward church attendance in Unitarian Universalism, and beyond, so while the way I phrased it seems flippant, the idea behind it really isn’t.
The Soulful Sundowns my church does sometimes are awesome. I hope your church picks up the trend.
Sorry about the abbreviation, and I’d like all other “Surviving the Workday” readers (you should call them “survivalists”) to know that YMMV stands for “Your Mileage May Vary”
CC
It’s definitely an issue that most if not all churches are having. My parents’ semi-conservative Lutheran church is trying to attract the younger crowd, but they mostly focus on modern music and family-oriented stuff. Yet they constantly ignore the kinds of issues you mentioned in your previous posts.
and of course it all depends on your definition of “church”
since Constantine the word has come to mean a building or service one attends, rather than it’s original definition of the body of Christ on earth
no buildings, just bodies
no positions of power, just powerful people
i don’t “go” to church, but I am “part” of church